Posted on 22.4.2011 17:43
Last updated on 28.4.2011 17:20

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8635. on the Ladder (of 18807)
5. on the Quickband Ladder (of 119)
11. for this player (out of 28)

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On 22.4.2011 17:43 ewan wrote:
Mage as requested by Antoine. First few levels without incident; a single Iron Shot of Frost bought at great expense for strong (relatively) enemies such as Maggot's dogs.

I find mages not harder but more boring early, because so mana-limited; much more resting. Would be a challenge to go for a _fast_ mage win.

On 22.4.2011 20:34 ewan wrote:
Up to clvl 15, so far, from very, very careful management of an orc pit close to my entry on dlvl 3. The game keeps telling me that 'it doesn't seem like a challenge here' - I beg to disagree!

Big big difference in what I am able to take on versus the prior melee-based characters. That's normal for a 100-level dungeon; don't know yet whether in QB the curve will catch up such that mages are equally able to win...

On 22.4.2011 22:01 Antoine wrote:
Thanks. Will be interested to see how the danger curve looks.

I like the idea of you trudging round with your one iron shot! Did you name it?

FYI, my current thoughts on changes are:
- reduce the effect of Con (on hp) and Dex (on speed) at high levels, especially over 18/50
- make ?Teleport Level, ?Protection from Evil and most importantly !Healing hard to obtain in town
- give Lurtz +5 speed and a couple more elemental resists
- remove 'extra shots' launchers (but leave 'extra might': and of course the Brigand and Ranger will still get their level-dependent extra shots)
- take Orb of Draining away from the Paladin
- make standout artifacts weaker (you mentioned Dor-Lomin).

On 22.4.2011 22:46 ewan wrote:
I should have named the shot :). I was glad that it hit both times I really needed it - the starting $$ seemed more of an issue for the mage than others.

Given the absence of stat potions, and the practical ceiling on stats of maybe 18/80 - 18/100 for even primary stats, I think that I would actually *increase* the reward for the curve between say 18/20 and 18/100, maybe then maxing out though at ~18/130.

?TL, ?PfE irrelevant to me. !Healing harder - why? It's hard enough to stockpile as it is! I would vote no on this, I think. If there's a town service that really helps at low levels, it's branding ammo; but I like the store services, honestly.

Making Lurtz harder is good. Removing Extra Shots probably also good.

OoD no opinion yet.

And yes on the very high-level artifacts (Thorin? Gondor?) but I would like to see (many) more low-level artifacts if possible.

Updated dump in a sec..

On 22.4.2011 22:48 ewan wrote:
Now clvl 18, still on the same dungeon level, and I just spied Mughash and cohorts off in an as-yet unexplored corner. I should probably ignore them and go deeper to improve drops - that's how it works, correct? - but I'm amused by having gone from so far clvl 8 to 18 in a single dungeon level..

On 22.4.2011 23:38 ewan wrote:
Here's where I ended up after descending to dlvl 5, spotting Nar - native to dlvl 17!! - and, just, taking him out. Out of mana, down to 8 hp a moment ago, and very glad that I invested in that bow and flame arrows before re-descending!

Would this have been different for a non-mage? Not sure. I seemed to be hitting him pretty hard, and could do so from out of melee range; an archer type might have found it easier but I suspect mage was the best for this situation. Now, if anyone else was following-up I'd be toast - but I wouldn't, because I'm a mage and hence have good detection. Not seeing this as being harder than other classes, yet.

On 25.4.2011 05:17 ewan wrote:
Slowed down. Beginning to be concerned about death - nothing yet has seemed potentially lethal but my hp just aren't very high.

Little good equipment thus far. Even things that sound good - Radagasts's robe? has to be good, right? - are in fact not great, and so my resistances and stats are still weak. Hang out for a few levels, I guess..

On 26.4.2011 03:45 ewan wrote:
Definitely a different danger/dificulty curve. Requires major adjustment to play mage versus any melee class: mana is finite whereas arms are not, hitpoints are fragile, etc. Even individual enemies, though, where a mage should -I expected- by strongest, not so: even minorish enemies require a full mana charge or more, and pose risk of death in the mean time. Much more care needed in choosing fights, detecting, fleeing, etc.


On 26.4.2011 03:59 Antoine wrote:
I suppose what I'm wondering is: would it be a better game experience if your direct-damaging spells were more powerful? I would like to keep the 'quick' feel for mage, but not to overpower the class in the process.

Bit hard to tell though, when you don't have any dungeon books yet.

On 26.4.2011 04:18 ewan wrote:
More books may change things, dunno, none seen yet.

But I suspect not: what I might alter is rate of max mana recharge, maybe?

On 26.4.2011 04:43 ewan wrote:
I think it is certainly true that this feels - and is! - less quick: I feel the need to spend longer looking for good gear, in part because I am killing fewer monsters hence getting fewer drops, btu also because I feel in need of more protection and the selection is much more limited for mages.

Right now the heaviest thing I'm wearing is a longbow at 4lbs; there are several armours that would really help but they all cost me mana, speed, and so on.

On 26.4.2011 04:55 Antoine wrote:
Uh huh. Coming from AD&D roots, I do like to see a mage with a robe and dagger (not e.g. 2H great axe and plate mail), but there's a limit to everything.

Well, will continue to watch the game before I do anything.

A.

On 26.4.2011 19:25 ewan wrote:
I agree on the desire to differentiate equipment possible; but it feels very much as though there is almost *nothing* possible! So lack of resistances is another factor in slowing.

Anyway, a current dump: dealt with a 7-headed hydra (branded arrows, although ice bolt would have been ok) and just detected Tom and escorts. Trivial for a warrior, but a real challenge for Antoinius here..

On 26.4.2011 22:50 ewan wrote:
One bug, by the way: Meteor storm appears not to do anything (!).

On 26.4.2011 23:09 Antoine wrote:
I';ll fix that.

Equipment and damage - noted, will continue to watch

A.

On 26.4.2011 23:28 ewan wrote:
Some big finds in the last two dlevels: Fingolfin just now, finally giving me some gloves (and a second blow); Balli for base resistances, CON and STR. And my first dungeon book; I hit harder/faster now, but obviously still mana-limited.

On 27.4.2011 11:53 Antoine wrote:
I believe the Meteor Swarm is working but not being displayed on the screen. Will talk to Jeff

On 27.4.2011 16:10 ewan wrote:
Doesn't feel like it - monsters show no change in health. I get similar problems with CloudKill and Ice Storm, but haven't tested extensively given that it risks death :) - might do so if/when I win or die.

Up to clvl 35, no new gear; fail rate on the bigger spells (esp. plasma bolt, my hardest hitter) is still rather high, so still trying to improve my kit and hanging out at dlvl10. I did wander down to 11 and knock off Lurtz, no problem as expected; and archery is a very helpful backup (which is sad, really, a mage relying on arrows almost as much as spells).

On 27.4.2011 16:12 ewan wrote:
Cancel that - I was spurred to test, and at least Ice Storm is working fine; will check further.

On 28.4.2011 04:46 ewan wrote:
Mana way way up: a factor of 4 over not so long ago, with Ereril, Brandide, =Magi, and Holhenneth all boosting INT even at the cost of some CON. So I feel much more able to stand up to a prolonged fight now; heading down.

Celegorm covers Dark, too; we'll see!

On 28.4.2011 04:46 ewan wrote:
Mana way way up: a factor of 4 over not so long ago, with Ereril, Brandide, =Magi, and Holhenneth all boosting INT even at the cost of some CON. So I feel much more able to stand up to a prolonged fight now; heading down.

Celegorm covers Dark, too; we'll see!

On 28.4.2011 05:02 Antoine wrote:
Good grief - 18/180 Int! Didnt expect to see that

On 28.4.2011 05:02 Antoine wrote:
How many of those !Heal did you buy (roughly)?

On 28.4.2011 05:05 ewan wrote:
All of them. Only 4 from the store service, the rest from regular stock.

On 28.4.2011 15:38 ewan wrote:
OK, heading down to 12. Finally found a second dungeon book, so my resistances are improved if not great; also Cubragol, but it's really not a great boost given the extra weight and loss of mana, so I think that will sit at home.

Would have been nice to get some speed boots or the usual Leather cap for ESP; oh well. I do have a speed ring, but can't afford to lose either CON or STR. Oddly for a mage, Dor-Lomin would have been absolutely perfect!

On 28.4.2011 17:20 ewan wrote:
Winner. Easy, in the end. Saruman didn't have anywhere near enough mana to keep up. I just hit him with plasma bolts; he teleported away once which helped give me time to heal up and then chase him.

And of course Thranduil showed up just after that.. as did Mordenkainen, less vitally.

I did avoid fighting some enemies. Ren comes to mind - nether was always weak spot. Will probably keep playing just long enough to get the #1 ladder spot, but done really.

Ending notes: artifacts worked as I think they should for the mage; only a very rare find helped, and it was a big deal to find such. The mana curve is wrong, I think; the ramp up as I got INT up to the extreme levels was nice but I think should be more linear above say 18. And the ability to buy healing potions was critical; probably would have been dead several times otherwise, as very very few were actually found despite the slow play.

On 28.4.2011 21:50 Antoine wrote:
Right. So, the next version will have:
- tougher Lurtz and Saruman (both +5 speed, and Lurtz a couple of elemental resists)
- less ramp up of Con and spell stat at very high levels (so overall more linear, less quadratic)
- faster SP regen for pure casters
- more damaging spells for pure casters.

I think that'll bring the difficulty curve for pure casters more into line with half-casters.

Thanks for all the commentary!
A.

On 28.4.2011 22:35 ewan wrote:
You're very welcome; thanks for writing it! I think your ideas sound good.

On 28.4.2011 22:36 ewan wrote:
p.s. OK, xp needed to increase level is getting silly; it's going to take a night or two of slogging/farming, I think, to top out the ladder!

On 29.4.2011 09:19 Antoine wrote:
It was never intended that chars should proceed past CL 36 (in Quickband 2.0.0; earlier versions did not have that limit).

I might make that cap harder, too.

A.

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