The Angband Ladder: Mighty Way of Dragon, Draconian Monk by chris

Posted on 28.10.2010 01:54
Last updated on 31.10.2010 16:01

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6772. on the Ladder (of 18817)
283. on the Hengband Ladder (of 696)
215. for this player (out of 384)

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On 28.10.2010 01:54 chris wrote:
[CL6:Thieves Quest] 00:08
I'm testing out some changes in my local hengband build. I'm not sure these changes would be popular! I'm sure I would hate them, but the good news is that these changes are only affecting me at the moment, so I am only screwing myself :D

[1] Random Stat Boosts. These have been eliminated. Wait, before hurling obscenities, I've increased the number of chosen boosts. I like XAngband pick a stat boost every 5 levels, but I was a bit more munchkin than that. Instead of picking at CL5, you may pick at CL3 and 7. After that, every 5 levels.

The rational here is that Heng gives you 4 random boosts, and one chosen boost every 10 levels. Here, you may pick 3 the first 10 levels, and then only 2 every 10 levels after that, so you are probably doing worse than in Heng 1.7.2. Except that you may choose your stat. This probably benefits mages, but makes life more difficult for 4 stat characters, like my monk here.

Another rationale is an attempt to limit my need to scum for a good start! In the past, I've had characters get 10 stat boosts by CL20 that were all well placed, and that sort of makes anything less disappointing. Now, everybody will get 5 by CL20, so there is no need to try to scum for more.

I might twiddle with stat potion rarity if this proves insufficient.

[2] Tower gold scumming. You won't be able to do this anymore. Just trust me on this one. This hurts me the most! I don't think anybody other than Dave ever did this ...

[3] Stair skimming higher dungeons. Again, this just won't work. I'm not sure what I will do to make regular play more interesting ... I really miss the old quest system from the original Zangband were you could pick up to 49 random quests, received excellent rewards, and quests got reinforcements. So if you ran into a quest for 20 Great Wyrms of Power, you better be able to kill 20 at one go! But I'm not sure on this one. Hengband's quest system is nice and distinctive. Perhaps I'll increase the number, but make it so that you can't fail the quest? Dunno. Other ideas include intermittent quest levels generated randomly in the dungeon. Perhaps a big scripted vault? My coding skills are highly limited, though :(

[4] Monks need to be biffed. I'm sorry, but this is just so! My first step is to change The Old Castle reward. I went ahead and created a new artifact for this purpose, and probably, I just made it too powerful :) We'll see how this goes ... Another step would be to reduce the number of attacks to 7, and perhaps tone down the stunning effects. Though this was attempted in Entroband, but didn't work at all. The code is so convoluted ...

I have other ideas in mind, but for now, I'm just trying these ones out. I don't think I can play without Tower Scumming and Skimming the Lair, but I'll give it a shot. What I have learned is that if the game lets me do it, then I will do it, so I finally had to break down and make some coding changes. Sigh ...

On 28.10.2010 02:18 chris wrote:
[CL11:Wargs] 00:23
Well, there goes my unbiased sample point. Bullroarer dropped not one, but two excellent items: A cap of Wisdom and gloves of Power!

Waiting on CL15 for my next stat boost. CL3 and 7 went to Dex, giving me 2 attacks at CL8. CL10 went to Str, paving the way for CL15 where I will probably choose it again. Perhaps I should be picking Con instead?

On 28.10.2010 08:33 Djabanete wrote:
Random stat boosts always drove me crazy. I'm not sure how infrequent chosen boosts would have to be in order to balance out, but it's definitely the better path. Good call.

On 28.10.2010 16:41 chris wrote:
4 random stat boosts = 1 chosen boost? That seems reasonable, except for the extra chosen boost I give in the early game. The downside is that you are losing 3 random boosts every 10 levels, so getting your stats up will be difficult. To compensate, I made stat potions rarity 3 rather than rarity 4. Hitherto, one could go hours without finding a single stat potion at depth, which really sucked if you didn't get your random rolls, or if you got nexus scrambled. This should make potions 33% more common, I think. I'll see how it goes.

I think the original intention of the random stat boosts system was to eliminate the need for a tedious stat gain phase to the game. And heck, one finds stat potions randomly, does one not? The result however, was that the early game became crazily addictive since it only takes about 30 minutes to get to CL20. A couple lucky characters sets the bar high, and everything else becomes extremely frustrating! What set me over the edge was attempting to begin my most recent magic eater. I used to scum the first two stat boosts since you can't rely on getting any others. But in 50 random rolls, 38 went to wisdom, and 6 to charisma. That left me getting 6 rolls or 12%, which is far below the expected 67%. Needless to say, experiences like that are hardly fun ...

On 28.10.2010 16:51 chris wrote:
[CL12:DL11] 00:34
I had to burn my only !Speed to kill Lousy since I just couldn't lure him out of the room he was occupying. He insisted on abusing line of sight and summoning lice 2 moves before I could gain line of sight on him, so I really had no other choice. Lacking a shooter left me with only my tiny little lightning attack, which is only range 4, and pretty weak too. He dropped a spear of slay evil.

Deeper, Smeagol (Thank goodness for my 20' Infravision!) dropped a Pattern Weapon! Hooray! Now I can scum ESP Z and work the Tower ... Doh! Well, upon returning to town, I took my 23k gold for the weapon, and traded it for a nice shooter for only 4k: a Light Crossbow of Velocity (x3) (+6,+14). That's damn good, and I was expecting to have to town scum a bit to enchant a shooter myself. I really don't see how to do the CL12 quest with just melee. For all the strength of monks in the end game, they are hardly overwhelming early on. In my experience, monk power doesn't begin to kick in until the early 30's ...

What did I say, CL20 in 30 minutes? Well, not with this guy. I'm heading to the Sewer which will probably only put me up to CL19 given the stiff experience requirements of the Draconian. It will take the Orcs to finish the job, so give me until the 1 hour mark.

On 28.10.2010 17:24 chris wrote:
[CL20:DL12] 00:56
Sewer and Orc Quests went splendidly, thanks to a quality shooter. Before the Sewer, I rested up in the town to increase my arsenal of bolts, when the BM stocked a Ring of Damage (+14), which I could just barely afford. That, and the addition of a 3rd attack, means melee is an option now as well. Golfimbul dropped a Light Crossbow of Accuracy (+14, +9), so I think the game is trying to tell me something about shooting.

I had to town scum 4 days for my second book ... Grrrrrrr.

DL12 quest: Disaster! That stupid Ghost 'Q'!! How many characters have See Invisible by this point in the game? I know, I should have hung onto that Pattern Weapon for a swap, but then I would have lacked both my shooter and my ring of damage, so I don't think so. Fortunately, Robin Hood came to the rescue, dropping a force weapon. I'm not comfortable with it, but I could use it to see 'Q' while shooting bolts, and that worked just fine. Another force weapon for my reward, so there is a bit more gold to play with.

Regarding Stats: I will be CL30 with base 18 in Str, Wis, Con. And 18/37 in Dex. Definitely, a 4 stat character like a monk is better off under the old system, where CL30 gives 3 chosen stat boosts and 12 random ones. Assuming one gets the percentages, that should be at least 7 beneficial random boosts.

On 28.10.2010 17:42 chris wrote:
[CL21:DQI] 01:07
OK, now I am officially pissed off! Aeglos in DQI? And I can't even use it ... Damn! Well, more gold I guess :)

On 28.10.2010 18:22 chris wrote:
[CL25:DL22] 01:39
Troll Pit at DL22! Weeeeeeeee, that was fun. This shallow, there were no Troll Kings, but plenty of Ologs. Also, no Troll Priests, so it was pure experience for me. I picked up my first amulet which turned out to be Wisdom +5!!! Holy Cow. Previously, for my CL25 level up, I debated between Dex for a quicker 4th attack and Wis so I could cast spells (I was 18/10), and went with Wis and got a nice boost. So now Wis is a stunning 18/104 and I can definitely cast my spells. I subsequently picked up a !Dex as well, and the boost was disappointing, so I chose correctly :) ?Acquirement gave Fiona (Grrrrrr) for yet more gold.

Agility +5 (I have two now) gives a 4th attack, but I finally got around to *id* my power, and it has Confusion for its random resistance. I'll just have to wait now since there is no way I am swapping out these gloves!

Innate FA at CL25 is super sweet. I'd like some more courage before testing out the DL24 quest. If it is Gachapin, I will just have to fail it since I lack Poison and Chaos resistance and he breathes for something like 280hp.

On 28.10.2010 22:42 wrote:
Well as you saw i just leveled a monk and i have to say-> ranged weapon only at start. Kicks are way underpowered until u get atleast 3 of them and start to actually get some specials which i dont think happen at low level (or maybe low stats?). But definately play as archer at start.

And yes now playing a superlucky samurai i can say monk was way worse compared to it. But as forums have stated melee chars are somewhat favoured in Heng. Especially the magic book placement seems highly unfair to casters imho. if warriors etc had to find an item at level 90 to use dual wield...

Also dont be cheap, enchant ur shite at warrior place and them some scrolls your ac is tad low.

I'm curious is it the lack of slays that actually makes monks so "weak". True you get stuns but from former chars i seem to recall that later mobs have no_stun flag so that wont help much.

Funnily enough my monk got glaive of pain from Acq :). Of course every other char gets something like *slay orc* ego.

On 29.10.2010 00:08 chris wrote:
Good thoughts, all. Shooting rocks early on when monks can't fight well. At the time I was dishing out 3 attacks for 50 damage, I was shooting for the same. Better to do damage from a distance. The problem with shooting is that it tops out early, so is only useful up to about CL30, and probably not even that long.

Yeah, I've neglected my AC. Pure slopiness ... no excuses. I usually don't go with the ?Enchant but just the town service up to CL/5, but scrolls are probably helpful early on. If you got the bucks, that is, and I certainly do.

But regarding monks, I would not say they are weak. They are relatively weak early on, hold there own in the early 30's, and then break out to absurd power status in the end game. In fact, I think they are the most powerful class in the game, and the easiest to win with. The obstacles in the early game are 1 attack until CL10 (usually), 2 attacks until CL18 or so. Shooting is better during this stage. But once they complete The Cloning Pits, fugghedaboudit! They are total bone crushers! The other main obstacle is covering resistances, which is hard to do given their equipment restrictions. Certain items seem to almost be required: Crimson for nether and some other lucky high resists, Thorin for sound (really, where else can they get sound?), Shiva's Jacket for base and Shards, and eventually, Amber. So many of my monks just hang around waiting for key drops like these. So anyway, I don't think lack of slays are the issue at all. Melee damage is boosted to compensate. They are only momentarily weak, in the early game, and that is soon forgotten :) And for some reason, monk stunning *always* works, and *always* owns your opponent, especially in the end game. Monsters that resist sound or stunning don't seem to catch a break here ... If I can figure out how the code works, I will attempt to address this.

Well, I removed Shiva's Jacket as the Old Castle reward, and actually went back to the Palantir. Once this guy gets high level, I'll see about toning down monk melee some how. To counteract the "fixed equipment set" feel of this class, I might try to add items like a sorely missing "Dragon Cloak". Just like the gloves, boots, helm and shield, it will be an opportunity to plug up resistance holes ... We'll see. The problem with Dragon armor in general is one of opportunity costs. Shiva's Boots makes Dragon Boots not an option. Dragon shields are heavy. Gloves I do use from time to time, but helmets almost never, as I need some sort of stat boots. Heck, even Hammerhand is often preferred. But the cloak spot seems promising, as that is usually occupied by an Elven Cloak for stealth only ... at least until Shadow Cloaks start showing up.

On 29.10.2010 02:10 chris wrote:
[CL31:DL36] 03:24
Other than Chr (1), I've found 4 stat potions. It took 50 minutes at depth to find my first, and the second one followed immediately. Then a 20 minute gap and 2 more in quick succession, and that was 20 minutes ago so perhaps I am due for more? This is more than usual, but it is hard to judge based off so little data. My goal is that 4 hours at stat gain depth should be enough. In Hengband, I've gone 4 hours without seeing a single potion, but that is just unlucky. I wouldn't think changing the rarity from 4 to 3 would be unbalancing. If it is, we need a better rarity scale :D

Otherwise, a big vault spawned a copy of Nature's Gifts, but, alas, I could not get to it. Rinaldo, Koopa and an Ethereal Dragon on one side, and a bunch of stuff on the other, including a pack of Dark Elven Warlocks. Don't laugh! If those guys wake up I am toast in 3 mana bolts. Heck, I've had an end game character take 600hp in a single round from a pack of these DL23 monsters! You better be careful, or have really good stealth. I don't. So when I opened the door to gain line of sight of the left hand side of the vault (Castle variety), I instantly took 200hp damage. It wasn't the warlocks, since they were in the back, blocked by other stuff. I couldn't risk that, and of course, once Rinaldo woke up I would be toast, so I gave up.

Until I gain poison resistance, I am stuck here. I have an armor option, but I'd hate to biff my AC for just one resistance. 4 more levels seems short, but in reality, it will probably take 5 hours or so. I just finished exploiting Granite Walls for quick xp ... nothing left to do now but slog it out while waiting for stat potions anyway.

On 29.10.2010 17:14 chris wrote:
[CL32:DL38] 04:39
1 hour between stat potions (3:01 to 4:02), and its been 37 minutes since my last. I did manage to buy one in the BM, however, so they are coming, but I really need some more Con I think. I just tested my power versus:
[1] Gachapin: Pretty easy, but he got hydras off. Plus, I was able to sneak up on him. In the Cloning Pits, they are liable to wake up.
[2] Mother Hydra: Tough, but doable. !Healing and !Speed would have been nice.
[3] Father Dagon: Nearly killed me twice. I landed the killing blow below 100hp, and his water bolts do more than that. Stunning is very annoying.

Based on experiences with the Dagons, I'm just not ready for the pits. Plus, I need a lot more _Speed anyway.

6,849 kills in 16,782 seconds of game play. That's 2.45s per slay. And I think the early game slows that down a bit. Plus, there is all the time spent looking for goodies to buy in the town. In the dungeon, 1 kill per second would not surprise me. And that is pure melee, so monsters are killed one at a time!

On 29.10.2010 17:40 wrote:
Rock on my Samurai 3 hits father without specials :). Just did ancient acid dragon vault, father dagon happened to be on same level. Netted like 6 stat potions from that. Few specials too but nothing useful. Helmet got pretty blasted tho.

Well back to work and trying to find Jack of S.

On 30.10.2010 01:42 chris wrote:
[CL34:Cloning Pits] 06:42
A quick calculation revealed that I would need practically 900,000xp to reach my target of CL35 for the Pits. I was also waiting on _Speed. Since neither was likely to be forthcoming, even with me running the town teleporters every evening, I decided to just buff up and go. I was soooo getting my butt kicked at DL40 that I doubted my ability to stay alive much longer. All monsters seem to be hasted, and I really felt obligated to waste my ring slots on both poison (1 shot death otherwise) and nexus (stat scrambling would so suck). The result is that my melee was mediocre, in the low 200's. Thankfully, I have found quite a few !Str, so that was assisting me on the damage front. My gloves of power are too heavy and disrupt my balance.

So, I grabbed most if not all of my resources, and even brought some ?Recharging for my lone staff of speed. I also thought that nexus resistance would not be required, and swapped in a huge Ring of Damage +17, adding 85 damage per round, and pushing me up to 315. This probably helped alot!

No surprises. Random monsters were Thunder Bird, a Samurai, and similar things I can't remember, so the result was I rolled the quest pretty easily. I only needed 7 charges of healing (and no potions), which was quite surprising! My only scary moment was fighting the Dagons, but this I expected. My trigger finger was poised on the q key to quaff a healing, but I managed to scrooge that one out.

On the flip side, I didn't receive a single usable item in the quest. Well, other than 2 !*Healing* and my soon to be claimed "booty". I figured I'd pose before donning the super boots, though.

Arrows were unnecessary. Now, I'm hoping base speed of +7 will make a difference back in Angband. I'm going to have to shed my helmet, though. At 7.5 lbs, it simply weighs too much.

My thoughts so far: Stat potions are still pretty uncommon, but not annoyingly so. Monks are still weak to this point in the game, and stunning effects are necessary here. If I do tone things down, I'll have to be careful not to make the early game too hard. But I think the difficulty is just Hengband in general. By DL40, many monsters are +10 speed, dish out 100-200 damage per round, and run in mobs. Also, at this point one runs into Drolems that breathe for a lofty 800, and garnering poison resistance is very difficult. Well, its not quite so hard if armor is an option, but for my monk, I really need this Chaos resistance rand-art, and never could bring myself to biff my AC for just poison resistance. Fortunately, I have a ring, but that was quite a lucky find.

On 30.10.2010 01:56 chris wrote:
Ugh! On leaving the Cloning Pits, the Weapon shop stocked a rand-art shooter with +2 Str and poison resistance! Well, I'm 100k away from innate poison resistance, but this will be useful for the time being. Before the Cloning Pits: 5 attacks for 230. After the Cloning Pits [swap Agility for Power (lose Holhenneth), Ring of Damage +17 for Nexus (boots have those), Ring of Damage +15 for Poison (shooter has that)]: 5 attacks for 470. That's a doubling of my power! Let's see how DL40 feels now :)

On 30.10.2010 02:51 chris wrote:
[CL36:DL44] 07:26
OK, the game is still way challenging. A mob of 'D's produced an Ethereal Dragon, Dracolich, Dracolisk and 6 AMHD, all of which had to be handled in near simultaneity. Fortunately, monk power is growing, and I also prudently made the following swaps:

[1] Nothing -> Holhenneth (Ooops I need SI from somewhere, and actually failed the Vapor Quest due to clear mushroom patches. How embarassing! 470hp damage is not enough, it seems ...)

[2] Agility -> Power (Thanks to Holhenneth's tremendous mass ... I lose 8 hp damage per round here)

[3] Ring of Nether -> RoDamage +15 (really, where else can I get hold life? I was up to 6 or 7 !RestoreLife every trip down). Plus, when Garm was discovered to be my CL44 quest I grinned. Oh, don't worry, my normally frowny countenance resumed once he tagged me with a darkness breath! Damn, he does that too?

So, -23 damage. But a !Dex pushed me up to a 6th attack, and total damage output is still respectable at 444. This is ample, provided I can see monsters coming and set up some anti-summoning in the walls. If not, I just need to teleport for "safety".

I'm trying to gather courage for the Old Castle. Sure, sure, the Palantir sucks and all. But it is +3 Wisdom and Telepathy, which I really would not mind right about now :)

On 30.10.2010 03:25 chris wrote:
[CL36:Old Castle] 07:47
Total sellout for the Palantir! A dragon helm gave sound and disenchantment, so I shuffled around and netted 580 damage per round, but lacking niceties like Hold Life and Chaos resistance. No matter, I was determined, grabbed a bunch or resources, and headed in. Failure was not an option!

Belthronding was a quick boost, and allowed me to swap back to Holhenneth for that oh so rare See Invisible (yeah, I was smart enough to bring it as a swap ...). The Raal's were totally abominable. Heck, I was double resisting the elements, resisting nether, hasted ... wtf were they doing to me? 5 !Healing to get thru those guys, and the message recall revealed a total spamming of mana bolts and water bolts. Bastards! The Greater Titans were pussycats (hellcats?) by comparison. Wrapping things up, the level complete, I pick up ?Acquirement. Weeeeeee, here we go for another pick of digging.


Freaking **********FEANOR**********

Nuff 'said :)

On 30.10.2010 03:53 chris wrote:
[CL37:Node of Nature] 08:09
Riding the wave of my Feanor high, I recalled down to DL44 of Angband, hoping to powerdive for the next quest. Nope, a very bad feeling stopped me in my tracks, and I ultimately succumbed to the pleasure of a +9 RoS. So, I've gone from +7 base to +27 base in short order, and now have end game caliber speed. What better way to celebrate then by bashing my first 5 storm wyrms of the game in the Node of Nature? And I notice Belthronding is quite the capable shooter, though I am not sure I will ever shoot from this point on ... Monk power ... Engage!

On 30.10.2010 23:01 chris wrote:
[CL39:DL63] 09:00
This is what happens when you take away the awesomeness of Shiva's Jacket: Wisdom gets massacred from 18/144 (barely able to cast spells) all the way down to 18/60 (no way to cast spells at all). Not too mention lack of hold life is quite annoying.

Well, a Bubble Vault on DL63 netted me some goodies. There's Numenor for light, sound, shards; Lohengrin for darkness, nether; Celegorm for light, darkness and a random resist to be determined; Robin Hood, Hellfire and a rand-art helmet. I'm tempted to with Lordliness just so I can sustain wisdom :) The alternative is to stock up on 50 or so !RestoreWisdom in the town. Nasties included Sauron (quaked), a disintegration vortex (cost me 2 =Speed since it opened up most of the vault, letting out Tiamat and Ancalagon), Daoloth (the great Wisdom drainer!), Iketa (quaked), and Brand (killed ... Yay!)

Time to recall and shuffle my equipment. Giving up Hammerhand will be hard, since it will put me down to 500hp, but I think it needs to be done.

On 31.10.2010 00:59 chris wrote:
[CL42:DL68] 10:44
Recent Amberite experiences have me deathly afraid. And on spotting Julian, I ask myself, should I? But a quick glance at my Saving Throw registers that it is only "Superb", making insta-death not only possible, but probable! So, I slink away ... Sooner or later I'll probably have to kill these guys, and its better to get them at a more shallow depth, but I am not ready to die just yet.

CL42 gives Sunlight, so I can now begin to more efficiently amass resources. And taking the standard play route means my unique kill count is all the way up to 130, which is higher than my winners usually get. But so many weak uniques are down, that I'll probably have to take the thorough approach for the Serpent. No sense leaving alot of uniques around for the big J to summon when they are the likes of The Destroyer and buddies!

A lucky suit of BDSM might prove useful. Earlier, I was unable to fit in Lohengrin and that is only 15lbs. Meaning, I'll have to lose the shield ... which is primarily for Chaos resistance anyway. BDSM has that, and perhaps if I can just get Crimson I'll try to shuffle around.

On 31.10.2010 01:53 chris wrote:
[CL43:DL68] 11:06
Well, here is the world's first ever, dragon cloak:
a Dragon Cloak [4,+16] {ShBlFe}

Dragon armors are DL60 items, rarity 5. They come with a single resistance, and as long as 1 in 3 holds, they get additional resistances. So this is a 1 in 9 lucky cloak, but not that useful. (I've had dragon armor with 9 resistances before ... what is 3^9? 1 in 19,683 which is pretty damn lucky!) I don't this additional will be unbalancing, and surely I'm not the first to think that Dragon Cloaks were missing from Hengband?

Norsa was a be-atch! With his buddy Narse breathing in the background, I nearly got single turn squished. But after a teleport and setup with forest creation, I took 'em both down (1 at a time, of course). I got Dwarves for my trouble, but I will never ... *never* be able to give up a wisdom boosting amulet. Herbal Healing is still 37% fail for 90sp and I need a way to come up with 4 add'l points of wisdom, not 5 fewer points of wisdom.

On 31.10.2010 03:15 chris wrote:
[CL43:DL68] 11:32
Oh, that's embarrassing. Feanor is a couple pounds heavier than Shiva's boots, and is enough to knock me off my balance. So, I give up +11 speed, but the return is ... *all* resistances :) Also, Shiva's boots are giving +1 attack due to Dex considerations. But damn, I'm tired of playing without Sound resistance. Getting stunned totally biffs a monk, as it reduces all their melee attacks to 1d5 punches (cf the 9d12 Dragon Fist).

On 31.10.2010 09:13 Djabanete wrote:
Call them Dragon Wings and give them levitation :)

On 31.10.2010 14:47 chris wrote:
Hmmm ... I actually like that:
a Pair of Dragon Wings [4,+16] {ShBlFe;Lv}

Another change I am contemplating is changing up Shiva's Boots as the Cloning Pits reward. Nearly every character finishes the game with these, and this pretty much hogs the footwear slot. My characters generally auto destroy boots (except dragon boots) since one can never do better (except with Feanor). I'll need to ponder an alternative, perhaps a Ring of Speed +5?

On 31.10.2010 16:01 chris wrote:
[CL45:DL73] 12:20
OK, that's worth a post: a Ring of Extra Attacks (+3 attacks). More rare than PDSM. More rare than Feanor!

I don't think this will be the character to accurately tone down monks with, having lucked into both Feanor and a +3 attack ring. Personally, I think removing Shiva's Jacket is a long stride towards rebalancing this class, and if I go ahead and remove Shiva's Boots as well, the job might be complete.

On 31.10.2010 16:56 chris wrote:
OK, Shiva's Boots have been removed as the Cloning Pits quest reward, and replaced with something good, but a touch weaker.

On 1.11.2010 06:29 Djabanete wrote:
Or maybe "Dragon Wing Cloak" to make obvious what slot it belongs to. "Pair" brings to mind gloves and boots (IMHO).

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