Holy Infusions

[the Invisible Stalker]

Originally Posted by Marble Dice

Do not confuse the Priest spell with the spell from Tenser's: the divine variety simply converts a wielded non-ego melee weapon into "of Flame" or "of Frost." The magic spell is the only one that gives you branded ammo.

Okay, then it's totally useless by the time you get it. I'm not L45 yet, so I didn't know. Thanks for saving me from a big disappointment.

[awldune]

Here is the recharge code:

	/* Extract the object "level" */
	lev = k_info[o_ptr->k_idx].level;

	/* Recharge power */
	i = (num + 100 - lev - (10 * (o_ptr->pval / o_ptr->number))) / 15;

	/* Back-fire */
	if ((i <= 1) || one_in_(i))

num above is hard coded at 15 for the priest spell, but is a higher value for recharge scroll and a plevel-dependent value for mage spell.

lev above is the object depth.

So basically this boils down to:

(115 - depth - 10*charges) / 15

Your fail rate is 1 divided by the result of the above equation.

_Healing is depth 70, so assuming 0 charges your fail is 1/(45/15) or 1/3.

_Speed is depth 40, so 0 charges your fail is 1/(75/15) or 1/5.

[o-o]

I keep a copy on hand in order to destroy traps. I use it on chests and trap doors, because Paladins seem to be expert at falling through to the next level just after producing huge piles of loot.

Recharge is a real boon. I don't want to carry too many staves, because they are heavy. Using up and recharging Staves of Perception until they explode is a more efficient use of mana than using Perception itself, and recharging staves of Speed and Teleport makes all the difference after having charges drained by liches.

Also, when you have Holy Infusions you have endless (+9, +9) ammo. You can push it higher, but this is convenient.

Purifications and Healing is the least useful book in the end; Mushrooms of Restoring seem relatively easy to get hold of, and the spell is difficult to cast when your wisdom has been reduced. The healing spells there are weak compared to "Heal," and that is all you get out of it as a Paladin.

[fyonn]

Originally Posted by Marble Dice

Do not confuse the Priest spell with the spell from Tenser's: the divine variety simply converts a wielded non-ego melee weapon into "of Flame" or "of Frost." The magic spell is the only one that gives you branded ammo.

sorry to resurrect an old thread, but at the level Holy Infusions shows up, isn't "elemental brand" absolutely useless? you'll be using a artifact weapon or at least a high ego, and you'll have more money than sense by then too. so why is it even there?

now if it branded ammo like the mage's spell then it would have serious value.

is it worth a look at the various spells at some point to determine whether they are still worth it? I know there's been some work to remove overpowering spells (and I still miss GoI), but what about other spells? much like the work on the artifact list, perhaps there could be some work to relook at the spells list too?

dave

[Tiburon Silverflame]

Yes, IMO Elemental Brand is completely useless. If it was SL 25 (and could be found around DL 25)...its only value would be in taking magical weapons and making them fire/frost weapons, to get some more cash out of them. That's about it. Because by even 25th level, you're VERY likely to have a splendid or artifact weapon that beats just getting fire or frost damage. MAYBE, occasionally, if you found a lucky BoC that was also +10,+10, it might be worth using for a short while, but by DL 30 you're usually getting into much better-quality weapons.

I do use the spell to pop traps, because my dwarf priest isn't very good at that. I use Enchant Weapon a bit too, for arrows, but it's fairly limited. Remember: you don't usually find the book until around DL 60, IIRC; you're looking for +10,+14, branded, seeker or mithril arrows either at that point, or not terribly far into the future. I did use Enchant Armor on some boots of speed [+4] (+9)...but that was, again, rather unusual, and I could've improved them just as easily on my returns to town, via the shop. What else do I have to spend money on at that point?

[Pete Mack]

It was once marginally useful, prior to branding rings. A branded MoD (with any brand), is a pretty fine weapon. Branded BoC is also nice, but not as much, since it probably won't affect undead.

To make it worthwhile, it should work on any non-artifact weapon that doesn't already have a brand or slay, that is: Blessed and +Attacks.

[fyonn]

I don't think I've ever seen a blade of chaos or a mace of disruption... not that I'm a regular deep level player, but I have won once.

are there any other spells are useless by the time you get them?

as for elemental brand, I feel that it should either become a much more low level spell, where it might be usable, or alternatively be applicable to missiles like the mage spell. I would prefer the latter I must admit, but I don't know if it would be considered unbalancing..?

dave

[PowerDiver]

Originally Posted by fyonn

are there any other spells are useless by the time you get them?

Most priest spells are just filler. The question is not so much which spells are useless, but which entire books are useless.

That's not necessarily bad, since devoting fewer slots to books allows more slots for other things. A couple of rods of disarming is usually better than PB8, so be happy you can upgrade to a beam on disarming without losing a slot.

[fyonn]

I'd rather each book had 2-3 useful spells than just ditching entire books because there's no value in them. what do we need to do to bring some new value.. just redistribute the spells or come up with some new ones?

[Derakon]

Adding new useful spells would make priests and paladins more powerful, and I've gotten the impression they're already among the easier classes to win with thanks to their healing spells. Redistributing spells so each book has some useful spells would probably end up nerfing the classes by pushing early useful spells to later books; however, it might mean that some of the useless spells in late books could be moved to early books and thus made briefly useful.

Here's the priest spell list, as taken from x-spell.c and then slightly reformatted. I've marked spells I don't think are useful (read: will be cast maybe twice per game) when the book is obtained with asterisks. It's been a long time since I played a priest or paladin, though, and to be quite honest I don't remember what all the spells do.

Beginners Handbook
DETECT_EVIL
CURE_LIGHT_WOUNDS
BLESS
 * REMOVE_FEAR
CALL_LIGHT
FIND_TRAPS
DETECT_DOORS_STAIRS
 * SLOW_POISON

Words of Wisdom
 * SCARE_MONSTER
PORTAL
CURE_SERIOUS_WOUNDS
 * CHANT
 * SANCTUARY
SATISFY_HUNGER
 * REMOVE_CURSE
RESIST_HEAT_COLD

Chants and Blessings
 * NEUTRALIZE_POISON
ORB_OF_DRAINING
CURE_CRITICAL_WOUNDS
SENSE_INVISIBLE
PROTECTION_FROM_EVIL
EARTHQUAKE
SENSE_SURROUNDINGS
CURE_MORTAL_WOUNDS
TURN_UNDEAD

Exorcism and Dispelling
 * PRAYER
DISPEL_UNDEAD
HEAL
DISPEL_EVIL
GLYPH_OF_WARDING
HOLY_WORD

Godly Insights
 * DETECT_MONSTERS
DETECTION
PERCEPTION
 * PROBING
CLAIRVOYANCE

Purifications and Healing
 * CURE_SERIOUS_WOUNDS2
 * CURE_MORTAL_WOUNDS2
 * HEALING
RESTORATION
 * REMEMBRANCE

Wrath of God
 * DISPEL_UNDEAD2
 * DISPEL_EVIL2
BANISH_EVIL
WORD_OF_DESTRUCTION
 * ANNIHILATION

Holy Infusions
 * UNBARRING_WAYS
 * RECHARGING
 * DISPEL_CURSE
 * ENCHANT_WEAPON
 * ENCHANT_ARMOUR
 * ELEMENTAL_BRAND

Ethereal openings
BLINK
TELEPORT_SELF
TELEPORT_OTHER
TELEPORT_LEVEL
WORD_OF_RECALL
ALTER_REALITY

Feel free to disagree with my opinions. I also marked the duplicate spells as useless, not because they're actually useless, but because when they're obtained, their render their predecessors useless.