Newbie notice: I cannot understand graphics system. :(

[Smiling Spectre]

Hello.

When I seeked new tileset for vanilla version (as Gervais tiles are buggy, and every other are quite ugly), I incidentally found v4!

Well, I am tested it today... and wasn't able to pass initial, graphic setup.

1. Main problem with every tileset is no quick equipment bar, right under AU counter (BTW, in vanilla this problem exist only for Gervais. And flickers in status bar below too).

1.2. Further research shown me source of problem: bar get filled only with 1x1 tile multiplier, for any tileset (including "no graphics"). But then it become too tiny for me! What use of good graphics, if you see nothing of it?

1.3. Also, any graphic mode has nice filling for any tile multiplier. But "no graphics" is not. It remains the same tiny dots, but with increasing spaces between them.

1.4. Maybe because of 1.3, if I select "no graphics", multipliers immediately goes to 1x1.

2. Well, I tried to experiment with fonts too - it was good idea for vanilla, and gave me the best results. No more.

2.1. Fonts for Term-0 window and fonts for Term 0 Font Tile Size are different "fonts" and have some bizarre connection. If I set font in "Window" exactly matching size of "Tile size", everything is good. But any discrepancy immediately goes to screen. For example, for first font 8x12x and second 8x8 "extra" 4 pixels will be cut. And if I'll set 8x16 for second, it will be spaces between tiles for "no graphic" mode.

2.2. But I always can set "Term 0 Font Tile Size" to "Font" settings! Well, I can. But it remained the same, regardless of my select in "Term-0 window". With the described in 2.1. "cutting" for graphics - and in that case it works for any tileset. Well, at least, it honestly remove ticks at "Fonts" entry. And if I'll re-set it back, picture returns to selected (for this time) font.

2.3. In all this moving and changing, size of term-0 window greatly varies. I would have nothing against full following the font, but it seems, it miss now and again, and in result after several tries I have a huge black unused field that grows uncontrollable. Oh, and if it was full screen in first time, it can actually shrink with some settings, even if I didn't wanted it.

3. "Nice" graphics works... strange. If I simply maximize window (with "Reset layout" command), it goes like that:

3.1. For "None" and "Original" graphics it goes to 1x1 multiplier. It also cut my Term 0 window size somewhat. Lower border.

3.2. For "Nomad's tiles" it's the same 1x1. But it reverts to my window size at least.

3.3. For "Adam Bolt's tiles" it's 2x1.

3.4. For "David Gervais" it's 4x2.

3.5. And for "Shockbolt" it's 6x3. Also, it goes beyond borders of my screen, so I see nothing behind it, and even cannot see lower part of screen. :/

3.6. If I set "Shockbolt" with "Nice graphics" then reverts to any other tileset, I will receive my initial window back... cutted on lower and right edges. Oh. It seems, system takes edges of my screen as edges of window!

4. So... can I suggest something?

About 1: well, it's pure bugs, I suppose. Can you fix it, please? They are my worst issues with Vanilla and v4 Angbands so far.

About 2: I dunno how both "fonts" are connected, but can you, at least, keep it dynamic, if I am choosing exact font? (Actually, I dunno why you need second menu at all).

About 3: Oh, there is several observations.

- It seems, set 1x1 cannot be scaled. Maybe it's ok. I need to check dungeon with it. But others are scaling perfectly. Thank you.

- It seems, system cannot "hold" window edges. And that's bad for me. Can it keep everything in the same boundaries at least?! I can understand "hard limit" of 1x1 that cannot be reduced, but, ironically, it's only mode when it not need to. Varied window edges in every other mode seems irritating for me though.

- In any case, I always can put screen back with slight disrepancy. If it is on screen. But mega-huge "nice graphics" of Shockbolt, described in 3.5, goes too far for me. I think, it's quite a simple fix, no?

Thank you for your attention! I hope, I will be able to play actual game after that.

P.S. And sorry for my bad Russian English.

[buzzkill]

I can't comment on the state of V or v4's graphic capabilities. Haven't played the first in a while or the other ever.

I can tell you that NPP has a complete 32x32 tileset, and DAJ has a nearly complete 32x32 tileset. You could try one of those instead. They are both fairly Vanillaish.

[Magnate]

Originally Posted by buzzkill

I can't comment on the state of V or v4's graphic capabilities. Haven't played the first in a while or the other ever.

I can tell you that NPP has a complete 32x32 tileset, and DAJ has a nearly complete 32x32 tileset. You could try one of those instead. They are both fairly Vanillaish.

It didn't read to me as if the lack of tiles was the main problem. I think the OP was politely saying "the graphics handling in angband sucks", to which the only current reply is "we know - sorry".

The tile handling really needs replacing with a canvas approach, but we don't yet have a dev able and willing to take that on.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by Magnate

The tile handling really needs replacing with a canvas approach, but we don't yet have a dev able and willing to take that on.

Ouch.

Can you, at least, explore issue with displaying equipment? After wrong scaling of "nice graphics", it's second most annoying issue so far. Of course, if I must, I can live without it, but I hope, it's something easy to fix...

[PowerWyrm]

The Win32 client is quite buggy, I've fixed a lot of these bugs for my variant ages ago, but unfortunately I didn't note them anywhere so the only thing I could do is give my main-win.c to be adapted to V.

Another good idea is to use the SDL client instead, it's quite nice, even under Windows.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by PowerWyrm

Another good idea is to use the SDL client instead, it's quite nice, even under Windows.

Hmm. I could try. But how to do that?

[buzzkill]

Originally Posted by Magnate

It didn't read to me as if the lack of tiles was the main problem. I think the OP was politely saying "the graphics handling in angband sucks", to which the only current reply is "we know - sorry".

I understand. I was trying to say, in such a clumsy way that I completely failed, that NPP and DAJ may present a better 32x32 tile experience because they handle the tiles in the old (somewhat clunky but) reliable fashion, and that they have rich, robust tilesets... every bit as good as the Gervais tiles .

I'm working under the (big) assumption that something in the overall tile handling changed when the support for Shockbolt tiles was added.

If the OP is interested, he may search for appropriately titled threads (started by me) for examples of NPP and/or DAJ in action.

Also, FA has a tileset and displays them as well as Vanilla, or as well as V used to (big assumption there again).

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by buzzkill

I understand. I was trying to say, in such a clumsy way that I completely failed, that NPP and DAJ may present a better 32x32 tile experience because they handle the tiles in the old (somewhat clunky but) reliable fashion, and that they have rich, robust tilesets... every bit as good as the Gervais tiles .

Wow. Too much self-depreciation, no? I got your idea. Thank you for offer.

I'm working under the (big) assumption that something in the overall tile handling changed when the support for Shockbolt tiles was added.

Um... here you are wrong, I suppose. In "old" (official) versions each tileset treats differently, it seems, and Gervais' was best-looking, but most buggy. In "new" (vanilla development builds and v4) Shockbolt looks great, but system overall have issues with tuning it (and every other tileset, actually - but different issues in every case .

(Now I am feel uneasy, because it can be common knowledge and not need to repeat. Sorry, if I somehow offended you).

[buzzkill]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

(Now I am feel uneasy, because it can be common knowledge and not need to repeat. Sorry, if I somehow offended you).

Relax Spectre. I'm not at all offended. Having re-read my original post, I just didn't feel I was very clear, so I clarified.

[PowerWyrm]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

Hmm. I could try. But how to do that?

Unfortunately I don't think there's a compiled SDL client... so you'd have to compile it yourself. There should be hints on how to compile the Angband source code on the dev site.